dtp
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Post by dtp on Nov 17, 2013 22:30:26 GMT
Marine sent to foreign climes to rid the country of Tallyman. He kills one and is charged with Murder. Poor misguided soul did not follow the Geneva convention. A comnvention that Tallyman does not adhere to. Probably because he cannot read. Does the convention mean that bomber pilots should similarly be charged with murder as the result of dropping bombs kills unarmed inocent men women and children. No wonder the buzzers want to kill us.
The moral to the story is that a serviceman cannot trust his colleagues.
i do admit to only reading a few reports on this subject.
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Barry B'stard
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Post by Barry B'stard on Nov 17, 2013 23:03:23 GMT
From what I have read he shot the bloke who he thought was already dead or on his way out with his Browning and said to his troup "this stays with us ok?" but his defence was that the chap was already dead.
There is video and audio evidence. Is it right what he did? If my mates had been blown up hours earlier by the same people and I was sure this boke was part of it, would I shoot him? Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 6:58:12 GMT
I think part of the problem (in some cases) is the quality and attitude of the lads joining up, some come from areas where there are a lot of muslims and depending on their upbringing may already hate certain faiths and nationalities, sending them out with guns to fight them is perhaps an incident waiting to happen.
However there are so few wishing to join up, the forces can't pick and choose much any more.
Anyway don't forget what we did during the crusades, it's just coming back to bite us in the arse.
When will we ever have a planet in peace.
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dtp
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Post by dtp on Nov 18, 2013 8:11:11 GMT
I think part of the problem (in some cases) is the quality and attitude of the lads joining up, some come from areas where there are a lot of muslims and depending on their upbringing may already hate certain faiths and nationalities, sending them out with guns to fight them is perhaps an incident waiting to happen. However there are so few wishing to join up, the forces can't pick and choose much any more. Anyway don't forget what we did during the crusades, it's just coming back to bite us in the arse. When will we ever have a planet in peace. When they convert us all to being Muslims.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 8:27:14 GMT
This happens all the time. In our army and everyone else's army. The people that make Geneva conventions and grand moral laws and statements are never seen on the front line. The Americans have turned it into an art form even devising torture that has medical evidence it is not torture even though it is torture. But we beat them up, shoot them and they do the same to us but the big difference is they are defending their patch. They didn't invite us in. If we were invaded by an army and all we had was resistance groups to annoy them would anyone be thinking of the geneva convention then. I think not.
Gurkhas have been chopping heads off for years and several marines and matelots have pix of the heads being brought back to camps during the early sixties. The newspapers know as I was in that trade for a few years and showed and discussed this practice with the Daily Mail. Not once did the discussion even refer to disgusting. Only the practical things like how they did it, why they did it etc.
What bothers me is this country is so full of bullshit. We are taught bullshit in the schools, in the media and in the church and a lot of it is handed down by parents who have been brainwashed so not intentional bullshit.
And in my view, the Met during that period of time were not that different from the Mafia except I think they called it something to do with carving stones.
Twice, one serious and one minor time and even one done on my son where we were eventually found not guilty of anything. My sons case for driving was dropped after false claims by TWO WOMEN police officers.
Bullshit bullshit. I cannot think of one bloody institution that does not hire professional bullshitters to feed our brains.
Really. this country had every opportunity to be the very greatest country on earth once it had invaded and stolen all the other countries resourcss but live by the sword, die by sword. The worm turned and now we are being invaded with the help of border security and in my view it is now downhill all the way. We have not the room, the resources, the infrastructure to absorb the thousands that are here and still coming. Not racist. Its common bloody obvious.
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Post by Miculo on Nov 18, 2013 9:04:59 GMT
If a person who represents any "civilised" country kills anyone anywhere without having been ordered to assassinate that person and they do so in front of witnesses and on camera there is little option but to prosecute, unless it can be buried which is what most frequently happens in my opinion.
I disapprove of his actions but it's clear that he was unlucky that his mates recorded the incident and saved the recording. Otherwise he would have gotten away with it as I believe many others have. For him being caught was bad luck on his part and ineptitude on the part of his oppos. I guess that if your oppos are stupid you should be careful, Just think back over the number of stupid illegal actions which have come to light because someone kept or distributed footage of it taken on a mobile phone.
While you are doing that think about the number of times we have approved of people recording illegal incidents which have come to light in the UK because people have filmed them, a police officer attacking Ian Tomlinson for instance. I guess that most of us were glad to see that officer being held to account? We can't have it both ways.
I expect my view will be challenged. Please try to remember that I didn't start the topic. I simply replied, Alan.
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Barry B'stard
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Post by Barry B'stard on Nov 18, 2013 9:25:38 GMT
Very true Alan. There are cameras everywhere now, even in war zones. In fighter planes, helicoptors and on the front line. I wonder if its worked the other way and decisions have been made badly because of the fact its being filmed or recorded.
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Post by Miculo on Nov 18, 2013 9:40:33 GMT
If we are in favour of openness and the ability to review events then it has to be welcomed surely. Just think of the crap we are fed which is only revealed lated when incidents turn out to have been recorded. Does it effect decisions. I hope so. I hope people obey the rules on the basis that there is a good chance that they are being recorded. Do you remember the video of the two Police Officers attacking the Range Rover belonging to an elderly suspect? One dancing on the bonnet trying to kick the windscreen in and the other attempting to break the drivers side window with his baton. They left their camera running while doing that, but it turned out OK because it was justified, seemingly. I must admit I have difficulty with that decision. Link to DM for Tony: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2095341/Pensioner-gets-20k-police-smashed-Range-Rovers-window.html Alan.
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Post by 747 on Nov 18, 2013 15:04:08 GMT
The Marine broke the Law as it stands (Geneva Convention). The Yanks only pay lip service to it and so should we, War is a dirty business by it's nature. personally, I do not regard it as murder per se, it was an accelerated death. Soldiers are taught to make sure when advancing that they leave no live ones behind them. If I had been that Marine, I would have just left that Taliban terrorist to die slowly, painfully and naturally. My compassion is viable but it has limits.
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Barry B'stard
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Post by Barry B'stard on Nov 18, 2013 16:35:50 GMT
It doesnt seem right to me. How can someone face a murder charge in warzone for this? OK I agree its wrong what he did but surely circumstances should be taken into account.
If the prosectution is succesful does it then lead to a multitude of "Victims" familys coming out of the woodwork and seeking justice? Does it then lead to our soldiers thinking twice before pulling the trigger which may cost lives?
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Post by prof20 on Nov 18, 2013 20:37:08 GMT
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Post by Miculo on Nov 18, 2013 21:31:17 GMT
Your question is really "Should wars be waged without rules?" Barry.
Do you think they should? Or is it just that a few unnecessary killings should be overlooked? How do you draw any line if you take that approach? Prosecute only when denial won't work?
Historically such killings have been let pass but technology and the ability of modern media to inform people has made that more difficult. It's practically impossible to hush things up these days. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Or does that depend entirely on who was killed and who did it?
Alan.
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glandwr
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Post by glandwr on Nov 18, 2013 22:04:49 GMT
To me the question is, is this Marine an ordinary poor kid who has been caught up in an ethos “of don’t leave any behind you” and the propaganda that goes on in every army in every war? That is that your enemy is sub human and eats babies. If he and many others are sucked in and that such behaviour is common practice. I’m behind him and think that in the circumstances that there should be clemency.
Common sense on the otherhand tells us that there are plenty of latent Psychopaths amongst us. Could this kid be one that was awakened and did what a balanced soldier wouldn’t have?
Do you support him anyway as he is on our side (whatever that is?) and leave his colleagues with dreams that will haunt them for the rest of their lives?
Dick
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dtp
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Post by dtp on Nov 18, 2013 22:24:12 GMT
The trouble is that we are not at war with a nation. Just a bunch of people trying to impose their way of life upon that nation. Once we leave the doors will be wide open for them. The same uncivilised people who kill young boys, alleged female adulterers. Just google Taliban beheading. Then form an opinion about them.
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Barry B'stard
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Post by Barry B'stard on Nov 18, 2013 22:28:38 GMT
I dunno. Alans right really. Its caught on camera and something has to be done. Its a mess. We shouldnt be there in the first place (another debate perhaps). I suppose we need more facts. Was the bloke fatally wounded anyway? If he was its still not right but I just dont know if deserves a life sentence.
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