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Post by nicholsong on Oct 26, 2014 18:02:56 GMT
This might be 'Fruit'less, as most of you Freckless Fruitcakes seem to follow our 'Leader' in things technical(until broken) but maybe, just maybe somebody has some input, please.
I posted the following on Fucts
"We have an Arto 69GL plated at 3850kg and are happy with it for current use, but I am looking towards when we might be freeer to travel longer term, if not full-time.
It took 4 years before I settled on the Arto design and then found the right one, but being the first MH I was starting from scratch - this time I know a bit more, so may be quicker.
I am looking for about 1000kg of payload, so it probably excludes most van-chassis based MHs,which seem to have a max. of 4250, although Dethleffs stand out as having a Globetrotter on a Fiat at 5000kg.
I have done quite a lot of research so far on Mercedes and Iveco based MHs(MAN are probably too big), but I am seeking help in two ways:
Firstly, to establish whether I have missed any manufacturers who produce the sort of MH meeting my spec(see below) and my list of manufacturers I have identified as possibles, and those I have ruled out, in two categories; a) not having models with the payload b) too expensive.
Secondly, as I want to buy second-hand, I am seeking help with sourcing specifications of models now out of production - few manufacturers show them on their website(even N+B seem to have deleted them). Some dealers, e.g German ones and Southdown in UK are quite good on the MHs they have in stock, but I wish to buy privately if possible.) Brochures are pathetically short on tech info - sometimes not identifying the base vehicle.
SPECIFICATION
Second-hand
'A' Class
Payload approx. 1000kg, so probably Max Wt. >5000kg
LHD
Double-floor winterised.
Large garage'
Approx 8m length
Probably approx. 5 years old
MANUFACTURERS
POSSIBLES
Carthargo Dethleffs Euromobil Frankia Hymer Niesmann+Bischoff RS
REJECTED (No models with payload, length etc.)
Adria Burstner LMC Rapido Hobby Laika
REJECTED (For Price - at least for now)
Concorde Phoeix Morelo
I am very willing to be told of any omissions and or that I have rejected some incorrectly.
To reiterate, help asked please for
1 Manufacturers
2 Specs and layout for second-hand
I hope this is not too big an ASK, but thanks in advance for any help."
Geoff
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Barry B'stard
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Post by Barry B'stard on Oct 26, 2014 19:38:09 GMT
Have you tried the Motorhome Specs database Geoff here www.motorhomefacts.com/specs.htmlYou can put in your requirements and it should tell you what to look for. Dunno how accurate it is. I know you ruled out Lakia but I met a bloke off FUCTS in germany with a single axle one that he reckoned had a ton of Payload. Rayrecrock has a tag H Y M E R and I think that has a huge payload. Its something I did look into myself a while back. Ill see if I can find my old posts about it. Why do you need a 1 ton payload? Are you think of putting the Yacht on the back?
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Post by GB584 on Oct 26, 2014 20:07:12 GMT
Probably towing a small jet.
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Post by Kaytutt on Oct 26, 2014 20:55:53 GMT
Or for carrying Polish vodka
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Post by Miculo on Oct 27, 2014 8:11:34 GMT
Our last van was a Frankia i840QD, it had all you are looking for after we uprated it to 5200kgs using SVTech. It was slightly longer than the 8m you are looking for at 8.5m though.
It was a nice van in many ways but a little too cramped for full timing and after 4 years we moved to an American 10m long with two living room slide outs. It has loads of space though the payload is a problem. We like it very much and as it came with a gas conversion it's not too hard to run, the extra cost of running it is worth it in our view just for the space. We can tow the car behind it too.
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Post by nicholsong on Oct 27, 2014 10:53:04 GMT
Have you tried the Motorhome Specs database Geoff here www.motorhomefacts.com/specs.htmlYou can put in your requirements and it should tell you what to look for. Dunno how accurate it is. I know you ruled out Lakia but I met a bloke off FUCTS in germany with a single axle one that he reckoned had a ton of Payload. Rayrecrock has a tag H Y M E R and I think that has a huge payload. Its something I did look into myself a while back. Ill see if I can find my old posts about it. Why do you need a 1 ton payload? Are you think of putting the Yacht on the back? Barry I had not previously found the specs in MHF. I have just tried it but some fields are < when I would like to put in > and the max. weight field only goes up to 5000kg. I shall do more playing around with it later. I am looking at approx. 1000 payload because we use up nearly all max weight and although I do not know exact empty weight of our Arto, I estimate we are using 600kg of payload, so if we wanted to add a scooter, maybe a canoe, washing machine and more clothing we might need the 1000kg. Also a MH with that payload, even if not all used, would probably give a better margin on the rear axle weight. Geoff
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Post by 747 on Oct 27, 2014 12:21:48 GMT
Loads of tag axle vans have the payload you require but you appear to have dismissed them. My last Burstner had acres of underfloor storage and a payload of 1250 Kg ..... at 8.2 metres long. My present one has slightly less storage space (lower underfloor height), lots of lounging space for the 2 of us (plus 5 dogs) and although I have not had it on a weighbridge yet, the old MOT's give the axle weights at time of MOT and it appears to have a very good payload at 4.5 tons MAM (the 747 was 5 ton).
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Post by nicholsong on Oct 27, 2014 14:17:30 GMT
Jim Useful info - I am listening, as it is difficult to find all the info on older models - no not you dear My research was based on what Burstner are offering now. Burstner are only offering FIAT chassis at 5000kg for Elegance and Panorama and MIRO of 4200-4300- to which I always add say 150kg to cover awnings etc. plus lies. This leaves not much more than I have now in the Arto. What chassis and MTPLM did/does your two MHs have? Maybe the market is changing for two reasons Merc are now max 5000kg, same as FIAT and I suspect heavier as a chassis. So the payload on a FIAT is a bit higher and the chassis is cheaper. Secondly, with more people being restricted to 3500kg they want to produce vehicles which can be plated at 3500kg, and leaving some payload(just) - I cannot think how somebody passing their test in 1998 who is now say 34 married with two kids can possibly manage a 6.5-7m MH with what they leave as payload. Barry's pointer to MHF specs will be useful for older specs. I am starting to wonder if the sort of spec I am looking for is not available on the second-hand market at say 5 years, unless one goes into the silly-money Phoenix market(I think Basia would not allow me to spend that much of her inheritance) - we shall see. Any further advice is welcome. So gratefully and humbly yours Geoff
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Post by 747 on Oct 27, 2014 15:36:36 GMT
Let me start by saying that I know nowt about big Ducatos built after 2007 .... because I have to reverse my van up my sloping driveway, they were totally unsuitable.
A Ducato with an Alko chassis and tag axle back end should tick all the boxes ....... but if they are no longer available then you are Donald Ducked. The interiors of new motorhomes are helping them to live up to their nickname of 'flimsies'.
I would look at the 'big truck' types that you say are too expensive and see what a 2 or 3 year old one goes for. Let someone else sort out the teething troubles for you.
Alternately, buy a big Yank Gin Palace like Alan. Once the lady sees inside one of those, she will swoon at your feet.*
* I believe Viagra is easily obtained nowadays.
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Post by prof20 on Oct 27, 2014 16:09:54 GMT
Let me start by saying that I know nowt about big Ducatos built after 2007 .... because I have to reverse my van up my sloping driveway, they were totally unsuitable.
A Ducato with an Alko chassis and tag axle back end should tick all the boxes ....... but if they are no longer available then you are Donald Ducked. The interiors of new motorhomes are helping them to live up to their nickname of 'flimsies'.
I would look at the 'big truck' types that you say are too expensive and see what a 2 or 3 year old one goes for. Let someone else sort out the teething troubles for you.
Alternately, buy a big Yank Gin Palace like Alan. Once the lady sees inside one of those, she will swoon at your feet.*
* I believe Viagra is easily obtained nowadays.
What, as a replacement for air bags to lift the back end?
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Post by nicholsong on Oct 27, 2014 16:31:46 GMT
Let me start by saying that I know nowt about big Ducatos built after 2007 .... because I have to reverse my van up my sloping driveway, they were totally unsuitable.
A Ducato with an Alko chassis and tag axle back end should tick all the boxes ....... but if they are no longer available then you are Donald Ducked. The interiors of new motorhomes are helping them to live up to their nickname of 'flimsies'.
I would look at the 'big truck' types that you say are too expensive and see what a 2 or 3 year old one goes for. Let someone else sort out the teething troubles for you.
Alternately, buy a big Yank Gin Palace like Alan. Once the lady sees inside one of those, she will swoon at your feet.*
* I believe Viagra is easily obtained nowadays.
Jim I think there are Iveco-chassis N+B Fkairs, or similar, out there at 5 years-old within my sort of price-range. American RVs have never appealed for exterior nor interior style. And i doubt whether B. would swoon - she has more class than Americans. As for the last * point, I shall diary-note it for 2024 - just in case, currently no need, but thanks for advice - presumably based on your experience Geoff
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Post by Miculo on Oct 27, 2014 16:52:20 GMT
OOoooooh.
I admit that they do lack style, though at least ours is reasonably plain and not all chintzy inside, luckily no nutters have been let lose on the cabinetry with jig saws and routers. So it's not too bad, still if I could have specified it I would have made it less fussy.
Your objection to yanks is exactly the same as mine was Geoff. We saw some examples which would have made any European vomit.
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Barry B'stard
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Posts: 63,709
Type of Motorhome: A great big white one
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Post by Barry B'stard on Oct 27, 2014 17:44:26 GMT
I think this could prove an interesting and useful thread. If you come across any vans with a huge payload that also have my beloved rear lounge then post them on here! I looked at the Autotrail Arapaho which is a tag with a rear lounge but Alan put me off saying they were shite build. When I looked into it though regarding the scooter rack it was still touch and go regarding the payload and rear axle weights. I couldnt beleive it. The problem was the length of the overhang. On a single axle you measure the distance from the middle of the rear wheel to the back of the van to do the overhang weight calculation but on a tag you have to measure from the middle of the two rear wheels which on the Arapaho was about six mile thus making the bike weight more than the van (hang on that cannot be right). Summut like that. Anyway here is the calculator to use should you go for a scooter. www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/safe-loading-and-payloadsA Hank replacement will have to happen some time but Im with you Geoff on this one. Payload is king.
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Post by nicholsong on Oct 28, 2014 9:56:34 GMT
I think this could prove an interesting and useful thread. If you come across any vans with a huge payload that also have my beloved rear lounge then post them on here! I looked at the Poor excuse for a Kontiki Arapaho which is a tag with a rear lounge but Alan put me off saying they were shite build. When I looked into it though regarding the scooter rack it was still touch and go regarding the payload and rear axle weights. I couldnt beleive it. The problem was the length of the overhang. On a single axle you measure the distance from the middle of the rear wheel to the back of the van to do the overhang weight calculation but on a tag you have to measure from the middle of the two rear wheels which on the Arapaho was about six mile thus making the bike weight more than the van (hang on that cannot be right). Summut like that. Anyway here is the calculator to use should you go for a scooter. www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/safe-loading-and-payloadsA Hank replacement will have to happen some time but Im with you Geoff on this one. Payload is king. Dear Chief Fruitcake Only you could want a rear lounge and then hang a scooter in front of the window!
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Post by Kaytutt on Oct 28, 2014 18:53:43 GMT
OOoooooh. I admit that they do lack style, though at least ours is reasonably plain and not all chintzy inside, luckily no nutters have been let lose on the cabinetry with jig saws and routers. So it's not too bad, still if I could have specified it I would have made it less fussy. Your objection to yanks is exactly the same as mine was Geoff. We saw some examples which would have made any European vomit. Would you like to borrow my handbag to belt him with?
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