oldgit
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Post by oldgit on Nov 19, 2013 9:06:59 GMT
I dunno. Alans right really. Its caught on camera and something has to be done. Its a mess. We shouldnt be there in the first place (another debate perhaps). I suppose we need more facts. Was the bloke fatally wounded anyway? If he was its still not right but I just dont know if deserves a life sentence. I think until we start locking up Americans for mass murder of civilians with drones we should not pick on one man for killing someone who previously was attempting to kill him.
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Post by Miculo on Nov 19, 2013 9:22:17 GMT
But if we suspended our actions till that happened it would never happen and that would make us as bad as the Americans. Surely we can agree on one point at least, and that is that we don't want to be as bad as them? Alan.
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Post by seamus on Nov 19, 2013 18:38:27 GMT
But but but but but British soldiers and under cover soldiers have been murdering innocent civilians in the occupied six counties of Ireland for over thirty years. They thought they were untouchable, that they had a licence to commit murder, that their masters would look after them. Now that Cameroon has had to apologise again in parliament, this time because of evidence that there was state collusion in the slaying of solicitors Pat Finucane and Rosemary Nelson, and that another costly inquiry is looming, our "brave boys" arses are collapsing and they are begging to put themselves up for filleting, hoping for a deal.
Two brits involved in the Military Reaction Force have been broken and spilled the beans on their roles in murdering innocent catholic people in Belfast in the early seventies.
Panorama are running with it in December. On Monday night a film crew were re enacting the murder of Daniel Rooney, an innocent man, killed in Belfast in 1972. This killing was featured in the book 'the SAS in Ireland' The truth always outs eventually-clearly a couple of soldiers who cannot live with what they have done. Itchy bum time for 'the regiment'
A former British soldier who belonged to an undercover unit in Northern Ireland has claimed he and his colleagues resorted to 'murder and mayhem' during a secret campaign against the IRA. Simon Cursey was a member of a 30 man team who would "shoot first and ask questions later! They shot at least 20 people and breached the army's rules of war. In support of his of his allegations, he has provided the' Mail on Sunday' with detailed descriptions of some of the most controversial killings in Northern Irelands recent history.
MAY 12TH 1972. UNARMED MAN SHOT DEAD BY THE MRF.
Patrick mcViegh was shot dead on may the 12th 1972. he was said to belong to the catholic ex-servicemens association, whose members claimed not to take part in terrorist activities. The Cesa had set up illegal barracades on the catholic area's of Belfast and were checking everyone who approached. An mrf covoy approached and an MRF soldier fired a Thompson sub machine gun, killing McViegh and wounding four others. At an inquest an MRF soldier said the convoy had had been attacked and returned fire. Civilian witnesses said that McViegh and the other Cesa members had been unarmed.
Though Simon Cursey and other MRF soldiers were questioned by police over the McVeigh shooting, no one was ever prosecuted. seamus.
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oldgit
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Post by oldgit on Nov 20, 2013 16:33:39 GMT
Bump!
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Post by Miculo on Nov 20, 2013 17:46:45 GMT
Come on Oldgit, if you have something to say why not say it? I have little comment to make on what Seamus had to say other than he is reporting a matter of fact in so far as the facts are currently understood. I would add that the whole thing was a very dirty business and murder was pretty much the stock in trade of all the factions. As a supporter of the rule of law I disapprove of that regardless of who did it or who sanctioned it. It's expected of terrorists but not of governments or those acting on their behalf, Alan.
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oldgit
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Type of Motorhome: Big white one
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Post by oldgit on Nov 20, 2013 20:56:30 GMT
Come on Oldgit, if you have something to say why not say it? I have little comment to make on what Seamus had to say other than he is reporting a matter of fact in so far as the facts are currently understood. I would add that the whole thing was a very dirty business and murder was pretty much the stock in trade of all the factions. As a supporter of the rule of law I disapprove of that regardless of who did it or who sanctioned it. It's expected of terrorists but not of governments or those acting on their behalf, Alan. I did a bump as no one seemed to be commenting on it and I was interested to see the reaction from fruitcakes.
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Post by Miculo on Nov 20, 2013 21:12:09 GMT
Thanks for explaining.
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Post by seamus on Nov 21, 2013 21:04:39 GMT
BBC1 now,fill yer boots.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 21:42:32 GMT
Who'd have thought
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Post by seamus on Nov 21, 2013 21:53:32 GMT
Shocking, fkn shocking, murdering bastards.
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Post by seamus on Nov 21, 2013 21:58:08 GMT
Heath new all about it. Wonder if he discussed it with saville when saville was delivering boys to him to 'go sailing' on morning cloud
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glandwr
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Post by glandwr on Nov 21, 2013 22:24:11 GMT
Seamus what do you say to the claim that such tactics meant the that IRA was out gunned and frankly gave up. That the eventual end to the troubles and the subsquent lives saved made it worth It?
Mind you I wouldn't like to live with the head of one of those guys. Lots of phycopaths awaken on all sides.
Dick
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Post by seamus on Nov 22, 2013 1:12:50 GMT
Seamus what do you say to the claim that such tactics meant the that IRA was out gunned and frankly gave up. That the eventual end to the troubles and the subsquent lives saved made it worth It? Mind you I wouldn't like to live with the head of one of those guys. Lots of phycopaths awaken on all sides. Dick I wouldn't have any truck with that claim at all Dick. The IRA were never out gunned, not while Gaddafi was sending them the semtex guns and sam missiles . Did a top army man not say that the IRA were unbeatable? I think he did you know, oh yes indeed. What brought the IRA to the table was the dirty tricks the brits got up to with the Omagh bomb. What brought Maggie to the table was the financial bombings, the docklands, Manchester.She was not bothered about the foot soldiers and the slaughter of the innocents, it was only when the IRA got their act together and struck at the bankers financial money houses that Maggie's arse started to twitch, oh, and the horses at Hide Park too, not the 11 bandsmen,oh no, she cared not a jot for them, but when poor sefton and the other horses were blown up Buck House and Downing street went into meltdown. seamus.
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Post by Miculo on Nov 22, 2013 8:14:26 GMT
Generals will always tell Government what they want to hear Dick. I don't believe the IRA were ever close to being defeated and I think that every new dirty tactic simply acted as a recruiting tool. There are plenty of very informative books on the subject.
Seamus is correct in saying that attacking economic targets was a game changer. It came about when the Government decided that bomb damage in NI would be paid for out of the current local budget in NI regardless of the effect on services. Suddenly the IRA could measure their success in monetary terms and had a financial target to achieve. It was a very stupid political decision to incentivise them in that way, Alan.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 8:39:10 GMT
I think it ended (not quite sure that's right to start with), because Patrick Public we just so sick of war. Everyday death was happening around both sides families and I think this continual horror eventually became intolerable to the point that ideology, political dreams and objectives became not as important to the original issue or uniting Ireland once again.
As someone who is not Nationalistic nor has dreams of no more borders I cannot understand why Ireland cannot be one country as it used to be. If it became one country and everyone had a vote surely it would bring out the best of both sides and couldn't be worse than what we have ended up with.
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